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Actually, this is why you fail. [Mar. 23rd, 2006|12:36 am]
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[citizenjess]
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If e're there were a fandom that has weaned me away from Canon Nazi-ism, it is "Star Wars". Because honestly, trying to draw a line between what is "acceptable" canon and what is just posing as copyrighted, commercialized SW material is enough to make your head spin.

Y'see, even if you tout absolute fan purity as believing ONLY in movie-canon, you STILL have to attempt to explain all of the idiosyncracies in THAT. How is it Leia can "remember" anything about her mother's personality when it's made very clear in Episode III that she only sees her alive for a few seconds as a newborn? Why does Obi-Wan tell Luke that Yoda trained him when Episode I shows instead that it was Qui-Gon who was his immediate Master? And so on, and so forth. (Note: PLEASE don't respond trying to offer up "explanations" or have "friendly discussions" about any of the aforementioned points or others that have/will undoubtedly crop[ped] up in SW fandom. PLEASE, don't, or it will send Anakin into a fiery rage and incite him to brutally slaughter a roomful of innocent you- oh, wait. Whoops. BUT PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY OR PURE AND/OR WHATEVER WILL CONVINCE YOU NOT TO BE A DOUCHE BAG, DON'T. PLEASE AND THANK YOU.)

The fact of the matter is, an empire/fanbase as long-running and successful as SW is bound to have a few snits along the way - it's to be expected. And in fact, a lot of fans will agree that its idiosyncracies are what makes it so charming. (Somebody try telling that to George "I edit all my movies and the original Original Trilogy will NEVER SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY ON DVD BWAHAHAHAHA" Lucas, though.) One can still be a fan of said movies whilst enjoying pockets of the Extended Universe - even if said EU pocket doesn't quite match up with movie-canon. Because hey, movie-canon doesn't quite match up with movie-canon.

So in the end, it doesn't really matter quite as much which branch of the universe you pluck from. They all have their good and bad points; and from my experience and (infinite, to be sure) wisdom in such matters, being holier-than-thou about one sliver of it is only going to make you eat your words somewhere down the line. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but rest assured, my darling nerfherders - that is what fandom is all about.

In conclusion: may the Force be all-encompassing enough for all canon so everyone will just shut the fuck about it already.
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Comments:
[User Picture]From: madshrubbery
2006-03-23 10:37 am (UTC)

*giggle*

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You know, liek, the mitichloridians or whatever culd have, liek, made Leia "remember" Padme's essence, and stuff, because she has some Force powers. Liek how those psychiatrists make ppl "remember" things, when they werent true, stuff liek molestions from theyre daddies. Cuz the Force is awesomely strange liek that.
[User Picture]From: citizenjess
2006-03-23 03:10 pm (UTC)

Re: *giggle*

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Sadly, all this talk of midichlorians and molestation reminds me of that gag 'fic somebody wrote about Qui-Gon and a nine-year-old Anakin. :\
[User Picture]From: madshrubbery
2006-03-23 08:49 pm (UTC)

Re: *giggle*

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Aw. You didn't get angry at my comment! I worked so hard to be a fangirl!
[User Picture]From: aizome
2006-03-23 06:18 pm (UTC)

ok that made no sense so i'm reposting it. :X

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Because hey, movie-canon doesn't quite match up with movie-canon.

Yes, yes, a thousand times YES-

I mean, waitaminute. WHAAaa? But I thought George was GOD? 'Cause like, only GOD could convince the masses that what they saw in theaters NEVER HAPPENED and still make them shower money on him decade after decade with ETERNAL LOYALTY and worship, and WITHOUT QUESTION (even the pope doesn't have that kind of power, yo). So like, what am I supposed to do with my Lucas Altar now? Turn it into a toilet? *sniffle-sob*
[User Picture]From: duncatra
2006-03-23 07:00 pm (UTC)

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::WILD APPLAUSE::

Yes! The sun does not shine directly out of George Lucas' asshole AND I'M OKAY WITH THAT.
[User Picture]From: citizenjess
2006-03-27 05:21 am (UTC)

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It's true. It actually eminates from his belly button.
[User Picture]From: ceria_taliesin
2006-03-25 12:17 pm (UTC)

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I have never understood the reason to draw a line between the two, it's nice to know I'm not the only one.

They all have their good and bad points

AMEN.
[User Picture]From: thedarkmoose
2006-03-25 08:39 pm (UTC)

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I still contend that the idea of fictional fact is yet another in a long line of fandom-related oxymorons. I tend to look at the opportunities the gaps in logic give our imaginations - we'll always have to fill in pieces ourselves, if we are bothered enough to do so. In fact, I think we were meant to, by the mere fact that for George Lucas to have done all of our thinking for us is for him to have made 6 movies about trivial minutia. We can work out the smaller details ourselves, and when we have, it won't mean much other than nudging some unimportant nuance into place. But it's still fiction, as ethereal and satisfying as the ghost of yesterday's burrito del grande.

mmm...burrito del grande...with beans..

I'll be back.

DM out
[User Picture]From: jehnt
2006-03-26 04:01 am (UTC)

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Here via jedi_news ... just had to say, omg yes. Word. Totally.
[User Picture]From: hlglne
2006-03-26 06:14 am (UTC)

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Nice little rant for me to agree with, and Quinlan Vos was shagging a seven foot tall green rabbit before his mind-wipe, so there. Because nobody said he wasn't.
[User Picture]From: citizenjess
2006-03-26 06:15 am (UTC)

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Right, right; it's uh, in one of the Clone Wars comics somewhere, I think.
[User Picture]From: hlglne
2006-03-26 06:25 am (UTC)

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Heehee! No, I shall never tell where.
[User Picture]From: may_child
2006-03-26 06:59 am (UTC)

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(Somebody try telling that to George "I edit all my movies and the original Original Trilogy will NEVER SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY ON DVD BWAHAHAHAHA" Lucas, though.)

Which Original Original Trilogy is that? The one that initially played in theaters, or the one that was available on tape and laserdisc for years? Lucas has tinkered with these flicks from Day One. Of course, people insist that enhancing the sound or color or picture of a movie is not the same thing as the SE changes that they throw gigantic tantrums over. I say, change is change.

Anyway -- I agree with a lot of what you said. I am not an especial fan of the EU, but there are some EU works that I like, or at least enjoy. However, I am a purist in that I do not believe that the EU can override the movies, which many EU fans seem to believe: "Vader wasn't a good strategist -- Zahn said so in 'Heir to the Empire'!" or "That no-marriage rule for Jedi isn't valid -- Ki Adi Mundi was shown to have multiple wives in such-and-such EU novel!" or "Darth isn't a Sith title -- Exar Kun wasn't called 'Darth'!"
From: the_confessor
2006-03-26 01:09 pm (UTC)

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A good friend of mine once said to me: "I've never seen someone who loves Star Wars so much who can rip into it with such unbridled glee."

The simple fact is this: Just because you're a fan of something (no matter how hardcore you might be), does not make it good.

Bravo to you, Jess.
[User Picture]From: yubsie
2006-03-26 04:40 pm (UTC)

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Star Wars is one of those fandoms where large chunks of the fanbase mock because we love. :p
[User Picture]From: citizenjess
2006-03-27 05:22 am (UTC)

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I know I do. :D
(Deleted comment)
[User Picture]From: citizenjess
2006-03-27 05:01 am (UTC)

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Um, hi. Opposing opinions are fine, but please stop with the sniping.
[User Picture]From: may_child
2006-03-27 05:07 am (UTC)

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But sniping is OK as long as it's against the PT.
[User Picture]From: citizenjess
2006-03-27 05:18 am (UTC)

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I guess I'm not following your logic; I am a big fan of both the PT and OT, so obviously my rant was written with the preference in place - though I don't think it really plays into the topic at hand very much. And duncatra 's ragging on Lucas seemed more like light snarking than a definitive statement against Episode I-III, so again, I'm not sure I understand the animosity. Unless it's pre-fabricated and is just being carried over into this thread, in which case, I don't feel it belongs here. Thanks.
[User Picture]From: may_child
2006-03-27 06:13 am (UTC)

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I guess I'm not following your logic; I am a big fan of both the PT and OT, so obviously my rant was written with the preference in place - though I don't think it really plays into the topic at hand very much.

My apologies.

As for snarkel, I know that snarkel hates the PT.

And yes, my anger was carried over here from other places, including various SW message boards. It was inappropriate, and I apologize.

My personal view on the movies and the EU is thus: I enjoy some of the EU. But I don't consider ANY of it on the same level as the movies in terms of canonicity. I don't love or even like absolutely everything in the movies, and I readily acknowledge that they all have their flaws. But that doesn't somehow put the EU on the same level as the movies. That the EU often isn't consistent with the movies is not the only or even the main reason I don't consider it to be canon.
[User Picture]From: citizenjess
2006-03-27 05:20 am (UTC)

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Seriously, if fans didn't rip into something, there wouldn't BE fandoms. I question whether something like Harry Potter would be half the phenomenon that it is were fans not interested in talking and overtalking theories about it. I would even go so far as to say that mocking can be a form of affection - you've got to be able to see the humor in something, to understand its flaws, before you truly come full circle with it. Or something.
[User Picture]From: yubsie
2006-03-26 04:41 pm (UTC)

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Oh Star Wars. The fandom where the ability to go "LALALA NEVER HAPPENED!" to any given piece of confusing canon is a survival skill to avoid head explosions. :p
[User Picture]From: shes_unreal
2006-03-27 05:31 pm (UTC)

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That deserves to be an icon.
[User Picture]From: citizenjess
2006-03-27 10:59 pm (UTC)

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Complete with someone's head exploding. Or like, that shot from ANH where Tarkin's sitting in the Death Star looking reflecting just before the whole thing blows up. :D
[User Picture]From: citizenjess
2006-03-27 11:41 pm (UTC)

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Reflective, even. :\
[User Picture]From: inklesspen
2006-04-17 04:37 am (UTC)

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Sticking my neck into the fray...

Here is what's canon for me:
The Original Trilogy, pre-Special Edition.
The Thrawn Trilogy novels by Zahn

Also, the X-Wing novels are damn good (and funny), and I will take them as canon if they don't contradict anything in the above. But I can't remember if they do or not, thus this disclaimer.

Also, possibly other books by Zahn, but I've not read any of them recently enough to remember the details.

And that, dear friends, is it. No prequels, no Yuuzhan Vong, nada.
[User Picture]From: luriko_ysabeth
2006-04-18 08:04 pm (UTC)

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Hey, my canon is:

- The versions of the original trilogy I first saw
- Brian Daley's Han Solo trilogy

Everything else is varying shades of (often very enjoyable) alternity, thus enabling me to enjoy six mutually contradictory things before breakfast. ^_^
[User Picture]From: inklesspen
2006-04-18 08:08 pm (UTC)

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What, no Zahn? Come now, he's the best writer Star Wars has ever seen!
[User Picture]From: luriko_ysabeth
2006-04-19 02:45 am (UTC)

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Well, it is true that Zahn is an excellent writer, and it is true that the Thrawn Trilogy was fun, and it is true that Mara Jade and Winter and Grand Admiral Thrawn were excellent characters and seemed to fit with the universe --

-- but by the time I got around to reading those novels, I'd already

(1) read other people's fan-continuations, several of which were very good
(2) tried my hand at writing one myself. It was wonderful fun and embarrassingly bad and I think I threw out the notebook years ago. ^_^
(3) read a series of novels written by a gentleman by the name of E. E. Smith, and started playing with the notion that Star Wars was what was taking place in the non-Klovia half of Second Galaxy while Kit Kinnison was growing up
(4) first encountered the notion of branching canon, where authors collaborate on a book and then they each write their own sequel series, or people make movies based on a television series and then go back and say "Movie Two didn't happen with respect to Movies Three and Four and the third-season series," or different people write contradictory continuations to a series begun by somebody dead.

So after my initial "ooh these were great" died down, I put them in a box labeled "one of my favorite possible futures," and give them the same non-directly-canonic-enjoyingness that I give to Maurice Leblanc and Carole Nelson Douglas and Larry Millet and Laurie King when reading their respective Sherlock Holmes novels.
[User Picture]From: inklesspen
2006-04-19 02:48 am (UTC)

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Grand Admiral Thran is win forever and I need a good icon of him.
[User Picture]From: kira_k
2006-04-17 01:51 pm (UTC)

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Wow. It's rare to see someone who admits s/he isn't a "canon nazi". Btw I'm totally agreeing with you! :)

Midiclorians made me want to bleach my brain but fortunately even Lucas forgot them between episode I & II. :D But I still love the StarWars <3